Talk:Season 4/@comment-455481-20200116223656/@comment-38698074-20200122163324

> But Scarlet Moth was shown to have complete control over his akumatized victims

Not complete control. They’re just less independent and easier to control but still have traits of themselves, unless I have to believe that Hawk Moth just let Scarlet Gigantitan stop tracking Ladybug and Cat Noir to play with cars.

‘Sides, he’s the one who negotiated with Marinette and Sabine over Lila, not the other way around.

> just look at how easily Marinette was willing to let Lila alone and give up her earrings to him.

Who said she would leave Lila alone? The deal was to get the Miraculouses in exchange of getting the ability to showcase the truth of things. There was no order there, it was just Princess Justice making her part of the deal, which Hawk Moth wasn’t even aware to begin with when he settled her.

> And at the moment he has no reason to expose Lila

In-universe, admittedly no. Plan-wise? You just cause a bunch of people who swallowed Lila’s lies around her to actually get mad at her.

While surrounded by pretty red butterflies.

Oh. Isn’t Kim Dark Cupid? He was sure a good addition on the Heroes Days. Wasn’t him?

> How Gabriel has done good without Lila ? His whole antic for 3 seasons was literally to throw a butterfly and hope for the best.

I said as good. But thinking about it. He has got nothing from Lila, whereas by his normal actions he found out Fu, leaving him out o the equation and fix the Peacock Miraculous. In fact, he would had most of the Miracle Box if he wasn’t because Fu passed the role of the guardian to Ladybug.

Yes, on a second though, Hawk Moth has done much more without Lila.

> The guy is so desperate that he akumatized Mr Pigeon 25 times.

I mean, that’s on the same season he sided Lila.

> while in the first one he needed to take advantage of Lila's grudge on Ladybug, he still needed Volpina and specifically Lila for his plan to happen.

Guy just settled her at the very first moment he saw the opportunity. He was planning the Heroes days since Volpina’s first Akumatization, as he knew that he could take advantage over her.

Hawk Moth has the literal ability to turn every person into a villain with any type of Superpower, Lila just happened to be the first Akuma with the power to create illusions.

And, again, if the Heroes days shows anything, it’s Hawk Moth doesn’t needs to side her at all, as he can use her regardless if she’s siding with him.

>No other villain, maybe except Evillustrator ( who we don't even know if he can draw humans ), would've been able to pull off the trick Volpina did to get the whole city vulnerable to akumatization.

Sandboy.

> And we saw how well Gabriel's plan went in Cat Blanc.

You mean, the one were he only failed to Akumatized Marinette because Chat Noir happened to be his son? Yeah, he should take more variables into account. In fact, I’m sure he should also make sure that Nathalie isn’t Ladybug to begin with. Duh.

> And we saw how well Gabriel's plan went in Cat Blanc. He almost made his son suicide and got himself and everyone in Paris killed by Cat Blanc. So yeah, Gabriel definitely deserves a cookie for that plan ^

For a last resort after being tracked down, it’s actually a very elaborate plan. In fact, the only problem was that Chat Blanc broke out his control, which isn’t normal when it comes to Akumatized villains.

> While Lila's plan got Ladybug herself and multiple other people akumatized, pretty much winning the war for Gabriel in half a episode, if not for Nathalie's sickness ( and Marinette's plot armor )

To bad though. Scarlet Moth won’t be coming back anytime soon.

> And she can still fool pretty much anyone, because only Mr Damocles and Marinette's family heard her claims about her disease that makes her lie involuntarily.

Yeah. Marinette just returned to school after being expelled with nobody, not even the teachers, knowing the reasons why.

Give me a break.